Curse

Malician · Jul 05, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

.. right. I'm using an air ele with Sabway and Herta, Mhenlo/Lina and.. tried several henches for the 8th spot. They're perfect outfitted (inc. sup vigor) with all the right runes and insignias.

I've seen it said very often that PVE is incredibly easy, there's nothing hard in PVE. I see people with healing breeze builds somehow survive. That begs the question: why am I dying?

It's all fairly easy until I run into a group of about.. 6-8 Jotun. You attack one, the rest all come; there's no way to pull just one. Pretty soon, someone just DIES INSTANTLY. Nothing seems to help. Later on, there's a gigantic gang of innumerable Vaettirs. Same thing - can't pull anything, instant death to a party member and it just gets worse from there. I've tried spreading blind and weakness on different enemies, I've tried doing nothing but spiking one - nothing really seems to matter. Tips? Is there something really, really obvious I'm missing from my play?

Akkarin Kentra · Jul 05, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Yep. Prot Spirit.

Seriously.. flag your formation at some distance. Venture a single hero forward and keep PS on him.. let him lure the jotuns and tank them.. let the others join the fight soon after.. should buy you a little time. Also, bringing a rit hero with wanderlust and shadowsong is very nice.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 05, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

I've seen it said very often that PVE is incredibly easy, there's nothing hard in PVE. I see people with healing breeze builds somehow survive. That begs the question: why am I dying?

This right here is ignorance. It is mostly PvPers saying that PvE is easy and nothing is hard in PvE. I'll correct them for you, most things in PvE are easy (Hard Mode is meant to be hard, but not all is) and with an Ursan team everything is easy.

Eye of the North in Hard Mode is as hard as it really gets in PvE, so I'm not surprised your have problems (I have problems myself in some areas). What it seems like you need is a better Protection monk. Those warriors, if I remember correctly, deal 300-400 damage per attack, at least to my sin (70 armor + 25 from Critical Agility), so probably 350-450 on casters without any armor buffs.

For Hard Mode, make sure you have 3 supporters (since your running sabway, bring both henchmen monks). As I said, those warriors deal high damage so you got to pull carefully and have good armor/protection up. For Darkrime Delves, bring a good amount of anti-melee (spamming blind is grand since you said your an air ele). Henchmen I usually bring in Eye of the North: Talon, Mhenlo, Aiden, Cynn, but you should probably switch Aiden or Cynn for Lina since it's hard mode.

Skye Marin · Jul 05, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Put Protective Spirit on one of your Necros, probably your MM. Bring a set or two of consumables if you can afford it. You could also try to get another human player so you have 6 heroes to tighten up any inefficiencies.

Malician · Jul 05, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Awesome sounding & thanks for the ideas. I thought of the prot spirit thing before, but I'm guessing I wouldn't want to send a sabway nec out as bait, and I'm not sure which to replace. I had already tried mucking around with pulling and points to get a protted warrior hench out first, but the monsters wouldn't stay focused on him long enough to matter (it seems harder and harder to get a fast jotun kill the larger the groups are.) What's REALLY fun is watching an almost-dead Jotun run away through the entire mob..

I've just finished doing all the dungeons in NM (except Slaver's.), and bloodstone's in HM (which was really easy.)

Autonom · Jul 05, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

I would take a warder instead of the SS, give him ward against melee, ward of stability, ward of weakness and ward against elements. The rest of the skills is up to you but i varie them depending of the area.

Here is my current template for Zhed ze Warder:
OgBDk7qsOpOYxr4aE9RG0iUB

For the jotuns i would change sliver armor or maelstrom for ward of stability.

Ps. Dont forget to bring PI(it can also be effective to echo it on jotun groups).

Horus · Jul 05, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

what i often used in my sabway necros: SS had added 2 wards(depending on what i was doing, so you could use the one to have 50% to evade and one for anti KD). Next my MM also used PS andusually some party wide prot spell(aegis/anti burn). Maybe adding these could help you at least a bit.

zelgadissan · Jul 05, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Here's my HM specialty skill:

[Churning Earth]

Notice that last part: Any foe moving faster than normal when struck by Churning Earth is knocked down. All enemies move faster than normal in HM. Auto-knockdowns if they move. Make sure it's cast on a group as you aggro (I think I threw it on the curses necro before I dumped Sabway) and it gives you a big head start to get something like an Earth Shaker warrior right on them (I'd dump the N/Rt healer for it).

Oh, and like was said, EotN HM is actually pretty hard at times. So don't worry if you're having problems.

|pyro| · Jul 05, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Bring someone with this kill bar, I used it there.
[build box name="Little Hex's anti-melee build" prof=Me/Mo fast=9+1 ill=12+1+2 inspiration=10+1][Power Drain][Ineptitude][Phantom Pain][Drain Delusions][Epidemic][Wandering eye][Clumsiness][Rebirth][/build]

If you want I can try and help you when I have time.
IGN: Little Hex

Nightow · Jul 05, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Here's my HM specialty skill:

[Churning Earth]

Notice that last part: Any foe moving faster than normal when struck by Churning Earth is knocked down. All enemies move faster than normal in HM. Auto-knockdowns if they move. Make sure it's cast on a group as you aggro (I think I threw it on the curses necro before I dumped Sabway) and it gives you a big head start to get something like an Earth Shaker warrior right on them (I'd dump the N/Rt healer for it).

Oh, and like was said, EotN HM is actually pretty hard at times. So don't worry if you're having problems.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jotun

Quote:

Being giants, Jotun possess great strengths:

* They cannot be knocked down.

Free Runner · Jul 05, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Something that works really well on Jotun is the PvE skill Pain Inverter. If you place it on them before they use Giants Stomp they gain all the damage your party would of recieved. Also keep a MM handy (i tend to use the Sabway version).

And you have to really watch out for Shadow and Vaettir spawns. If your MM can gather a good number of Minions you should be able to roll them, however if not then flag your heroes back and cause them to pop up.

Widowmaker · Jul 08, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

This right here is ignorance. It is mostly PvPers saying that PvE is easy and nothing is hard in PvE. I'll correct them for you, most things in PvE are easy (Hard Mode is meant to be hard, but not all is) and with an Ursan team everything is easy.

Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else.

Nightow · Jul 08, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else.

Right, it gets really silly though when your 'rock' of a two man team can run dungeons like CoF/SoO/etc. and beat the dungeon's now paper thin mobs. (pun intended)

BTW, just want to reinforce the idea of bringing a blindbot (air ele) and good prot (Don't rely on heroes for these two roles unless you're some sort of RTS freak with multitasking skills of a god.

) since both can make this dungeon A LOT easier.

zelgadissan · Jul 08, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Being giants, Jotun possess great strengths:

* They cannot be knocked down.

LOL I got owned. My bad - saw HM and just immediately thought to mention that skill.

Anyway - other things that make Jotun easier - blind, [Enfeebling Blood], [Protective Spirit], [Pain Inverter]. Also, since I'm a mesmer I have to plug Clumsiness here - they'll start their Stomp and then it'll be canceled and take damage. IMO there's nothing more satisfying in GW than interrupts. Pyro's mesmer bar looks great for a hero there.

Widowmaker · Jul 09, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

A [ebon dust aura] + [volley] ranger makes HM physical damage dealers a lot easier to cope with.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

Hard mode mobs can "suffer" from random selection meaning that sometimes you will happen across a group that is almost unbeatable in HM due to their total domination in a certain area. Depending on your build.

For instance today in Shards on my way to Gadd's I encountered a group of 6 Skeleton Wizards, 3 priests and 2 chained Clerics. That much blind and healing meant most of the physicals in the team were useless as my monks couldn't keep up with condition removal.

If I had been playing a less balanced team, and gone all magic, we would have nuked them in short order.

HM Guild Wars is more akin to a game of Paper/Scissors/Stone than anything else.

Trust me, I know this, I have been stopped at the last group of a vanquish in EN because of a Charr group (Spirit Spammer, 2 monks, 1 Mesmer(with rez), 1 warder, and something else). Luckily though, those "good groups" usually only exist in the later areas and in EN, which is what I was saying in what you quoted me on, the "Hard" Hard Mode areas are rare in non-EN, but rather common in EN, as in NM they are already well balanced.

CoopaTroopa · Jul 09, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

The Jotuns can be a pain... [enfeebling blood] and [aegis] really helped me get through.

Another trick would be to try [defensive anthem] on a P/W hero also using [watch yourself!]

it also really helps to bring some caster hate, especially for the bloodcurdlers. at 25 blood magic (or whatever ridiculously high number they have in HM) they can nearly wipe you by themselves.

the final recommendation? jagged sabway mm, sabway SS, monk hybrid hero with aegis and an interrupt or two, and then you as a blindbot (ideally with another copy of aegis for when the monks is down)

santaclaus66 · Jul 09, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Sorry,

I don't get it.

I'm a ranger, go sabway, prot monk henchie, heal monk henchie, two warriors.
Gives me a team of 8.

I go degen, apply poison and burning arrow, and Pain Inverter.

Jotuns hardly get me or any in my team below 50%.

Ok, I have maxed asura now, but still, a Jotun Skullsmasher almost kills himself 100% when PI is triggered.
Even groups of 4 skullsmashers die very fast.

/Santa

glacialphoenix · Jul 13, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

A lot of people have suggested prot spirit, and I will add to that. I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Lina has it, but AI doesn't pre-prot, so she'll only cast PS once someone gets hit.

Might be easier for you to put it on a hero and manual it so that one of your heroes/henchies can tank with PS on him, as some suggested earlier. (I play with a guildie, and manual prot on whoever's pulling - seems to work fine.)

Arduin · Jul 14, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

And in case you still get killed, rack up some cash and buy some sets of consumables (Grail of Might, Essence of Celerity, Armor of Salvation).

Some say they are cheating, but it's no good getting frustrated about one silly dungeon you can't complete.